07:57:56 PM Welcome! We will be live blogging the debate between Steve Beshear and Ernie Fletcher tonight as they face off in the first major televised debate. It will be interesting to see two things in this debate. 1st off, how well the candidates do in this televised head to head contest. Secondly, what type of questions will be asked. The primary questions were really lame. Hopefully these will be better.
08:00:46 PM Ok, we begin with opening statements
08:02:01 PM Fletcher starts by talking about how far in the dumps KY was under Democrats and he is talking about how he started turning the state around. He says the election is about moving forward or returning back to the days of bottom 10
08:03:18 PM Beshear is playing the the ethics card.. and then talks about paralyzing the state by partisan bickering.. (hmm didn't STumbo start that).. he finishes talking about Democratic or Republican solution doesn't matter.. yea right!
08:03:48 PM 1st question - Is his opponent dishonest, liar, crook
08:05:45 PM Fletcher: We made some mistakes, but nothing illegal. He calls Beshear in Kentucky's Enron. He says it is hypocritcal for Beshear since he had ethics violations and while he was AG, he said that merit violations should be handled by the personell board.
08:07:35 PM Beshear: Fletcher will be turned out because the scandals. He pardons and take's the 5th... then says it is witch hunt. (Beshear just talked in 3rd person - LAME) Special prosecutor cleared him in the enron (Kentucky Centeral) case.
08:08:12 PM Follow Up: Fletcher signed statement saying it was appropriate, but then it is a witch hunt. Is that a conflict?
08:09:46 PM Fletcher: Yes it was inappropriate, but it was not criminal without malice and intent. (Ug he is parsing the document, but is making good points) He is correcting a practice that was started by Beshear... he is rudely interrupted?
08:10:29 PM Folowup: He is asking what Steve Beshear what he would do again
08:11:16 PM Beshear is saying that he did nothing wrong even given the softball question
08:11:40 PM Back the questioner, who rather rudely interrupted Fletcher.. what the hell was that?
08:13:15 PM Fletcher rebuttal: He is laying out what the report and the fact that it was swept under the rug before he ran for US Senate. Fletcher says that his campaign is based on a case that was cleared of any wrong doing
08:13:46 PM Beshear: Fletcher is the only one up here who hired a defense attorney (good line)
08:15:15 PM Beshear is now lying saying he was part of the conspiracy to break the law. That is not the truth. He did take the 5th in front of the grand jury. Now he is saying most Kentuckians have never been indicted and taken the 5th like Ernie has.
08:15:40 PM Next Question: Same sex benefits?
08:16:41 PM Beshear: We have asked the universities to be top universities. They should use any hiring practice they want
08:17:53 PM Fletcher: People across KY who can't afford health insurance, but Beshear wants people to pay for gay couples health insurance
08:20:49 PM Followup: Is this program unconstitutional?
08:22:54 PM Beshear: No it is constitutional. He voted for the constitutional amendment a couple of years ago. (I don't remember which way that was.. I need to look that up)
08:23:24 PM Folloup: Appointed board members.. did you tell the to vote a certain away
08:23:54 PM Fletcher: no I did not, I hadn't appointed a majority at that point
08:25:59 PM (I like Fletcher's answer that he opposes it while Beshear is on the left on this issue.. not really in step with Kentuckians that voted for the sanctity of marriage) Followup: Fletcher you claimed it is unconstitutional for a donation where the spouse had two male signatures. Do you believe that?
08:26:55 PM Fletcher: It is against the Constitution to have same sex marriages
08:28:45 PM Beshear Rebuttal: He is rambling on about Fletcher flip flopping on casinos and partner benefits (this isn't true.. he had no position until it became an issue and then took a side)
08:30:52 PM Fletcher rebuttal: Beshear doesn't represent KY. Pro-Abortion, Anti-Gun (Fletcher is a much better speaker than Beshear) Then he went on to say he wasn't a flip flopper (basically re-iterating what wrote a minute ago)
08:31:25 PM Next Question: Job gains in golden triangle - rest of KY isn't so well off
08:33:06 PM Fletcher: It is going to take awhile to change the direction of the ship. We have increased tourism. We have looked at energy in Eastern and Western KY. Invested money in agriculture. Better infrastructure to support adventure tourism.
08:35:09 PM Beshear: He is going to help the golden triangle. But we got to do more in the west and the east. (sounds like he is going to continue what Fletcher is already doing.. why should we elect him to do what Fletcher is doing.)
08:35:53 PM Followup to Beshear: Will you open records for financial incentives which are now confidential.
08:37:55 PM Beshear: yes, it is time to open up the records. We need to open the deals. We can't measure if the company is living up to their responsibilities. If they don't we need to get stuff back from them. (Ok, this is the most destructive answer I have heard Beshear say. Why the hell would companies come here if their internal workings are opened to the public. If they don't meet the goals then we want to get money back? That is insane. No company will ever come here under those pretenses. )
08:38:40 PM Fletcher: I don't know where Beshear has been, but we already passed an energy bill (good line.. and an excellent point)
08:39:59 PM Fletcher: We do release incentive packages, but we don't release propietary information. That would drive off business faster than anything else. (exactly what I wrote)
08:40:32 PM Good answer by Fletcher.. and true
08:41:48 PM Fletcher: We had 3 types of companies - basic agriculture, basic mining, and basic manufacturing- We have diversified
08:43:22 PM We have moved to advanced manufacturing. We have more community colleges than ever, increased funding to universities 20%, lower education 25%. We are helping to move Kentucky cities forward. Biodiesel and coal gains.
08:46:50 PM Beshear: We need to refocus our efforts. All that Ky does is go outside the state and bring in companies that leave 5 years later because labor is cheaper (like toyota.. dumb ass) We need to create incentives for Ky businesses -um, why don't you pledge to lower taxes instead of picking and choosing which business get the money. Talking about setting another good ole boy patronage system. That is another horrible idea! If you want to create more jobs, lower taxes damnit)
08:47:31 PM Next Question: Bridge Projects - How to pay
08:48:45 PM Beshear: We have 3 mega projects (Henderson, Louisville, N KY) - We can't do it out of the road fund. We need innovative thinking. We are going to do things other than tolls.. (He is going to roll up his sleves, but no specifics)
08:50:11 PM Fletcher: We are 7th in efficiency in DOT. We have to work with the federal government. We need to work with local communities, and committing to get them done. We need to evaluate local tax authority (that is scary, but it is different)
08:50:22 PM Folloup: What are you talking about Beshear?
08:50:41 PM He has talked to investment bankers and they have come up with a bunch of ideas.
08:50:52 PM Follow: how would an investment banker make money on it?
08:52:32 PM Beshear: They wouldn't do it if they couldn't make money. He is going to talk about it and come up with a solution. I am going to roll up my sleeves and get it done. (but didn't you just say that you are going to talk about it... I am confused. He is giving one of the best non-answers of the night)
08:53:49 PM Beshear rebuttal: You have heard Fletcher talk about KY's growth. But nationally we are rated to suck. This ship is sinking. We need to bail it out. We need to redirect it.
08:55:48 PM Fletcher: We were bankrupt 4 years ago. We now have a surplus. We have a long way to go. Our GDP growth is higher than most states around us. The statistics he talks about aren't taking into account the jobs that were created this year. Building strong communities and diversifying our economy.
08:56:52 PM Next Question: The budget is structurally imbalanced. How would you balance it?
08:58:46 PM Fletcher: We have used dollars wisely.. we have shrunk the size of government. Beshear wants to do it 2%. We did more than than it 3 weeks. We want to continue to do that through attrition. We want to continue to provide the services that are needed. We have begun to recapture it as the economy continues to grow.
09:02:26 PM Beshear: We are not going to borrow our way to prosperity. Fletcher has issued 17% more debt that Patton in 8 years. Our jobs plan is going to create more jobs and revenue (Man I guess we are going to need lots of casinos to make that happen - for that is the only jobs plan he has been specific about to date) 2nd thing - conduct an efficiency study to see what type of light bulbs we are buying (he is now sounding like Jimmy Carter - That has already been done)
09:03:11 PM Followup Beshear: You have said casinos would generate the revenue to pay for all of your projects. What are you going to do if casinos are not approved?
09:07:22 PM Beshear: He wants to put it on the ballot, and if the people pass it we will handle the money appropriately if not then we are still going to move forward because we are going to save hundreds of millions on efficiency study (yeah right) and increasing the tax base. (Ok, I have to stop and say bull shit right here and now. I sat here and listened to the Democratic debates and he didn't say whether or not it passed. He said if he was elected it would pass. He would force it through. The stupid questioner's are not going to call him on this)
09:08:04 PM Fletcher Follow up: Looming problem with pension funds for local governments
09:09:12 PM Fletcher: Fletcher is calling him Beshear on the efficiency crap, and he rightly point out that the only way Beshear can do what he wants is if Casino gambling passes.
09:12:07 PM Blue Ribbon task force to come up with a solution to the problems, and we are going to change how future benefits are paid. - Retirement bonds is part of it. Dems didn't pass it. Wait for blue ribbon task force to come up with recomendations and sit down and pick out the ones that are right for Kentucky. (He has a good jab at Beshear when he quotes Beshear from a previous debate where Beshear said he didn't have a clue how to fix the problem)
09:14:47 PM Beshear Rebuttal: Retirement funds are in trouble. It is a complex problem. We need to bring everyone to the table (isn't that what Fletcher just said - no you are not. The only people you are going to talk to is your good ole boy network in Frankfort. I am going to bet right now that if elected you don't sit down and talk to David Williams about anything during your entire term)
09:15:36 PM Next Question: Would you support new changes to retirement for new employees?
09:18:11 PM Beshear: I am going to keep faith with people already in the system. Everything else is on the table. If we change the benefit to new hires then it needs to make a difference. It has to be a long term solution. We are going to have to look at everything. I am not going to make a decision on it until we talk about it. (He is the king of saying nothing. What an empty suit! Beshear is going to be tired of talking if he is elected since he is going to sit down and talk about everything)
09:22:27 PM Rebuttal Mr Fletcher (What is up with calling him Mr Fletcher? He should be addressed as Gov Fletcher or at the least Dr. Fletcher. As my wife just pointed out that is completely disrespectful): We can't talk about this unless we solved the budget crisis and the medicate crisis which we did. We have increased money for it. We are going to have to try new things. We need to attract good employees and make sure benefits are appropriate for such hires.
09:22:58 PM Question: Why not talk about your accomplishments? Why is your campaign negative?
09:23:51 PM Fletcher: Beshear said casinos are an important part of Kentucky. I am opposing it. We educated people on casinos.
09:24:02 PM Follow up: Will you oppose it if elected?
09:24:26 PM Fletcher; yes I will - If you want gambling vote Beshear, if not then vote Fletcher
09:25:59 PM (Note: I think this is a good idea. I think Fletcher should stop the attacks and go positive the rest of the way. He has brought Beshear's number down, but they haven't help bring his numbers up. This is why Northup lost to Yarmuth. To much negative not enough positive. Besides if Fletcher goes positive, Beshear will be the only one going negative.. and that might change the dynamics of the race)
09:27:39 PM Beshear: How Fletcher helped: 1st they came up with a hit list and lowered benefits. We need to value our teachers and state workers. We want them to be protected. Get pay raises they deserve. (How about a merit based pay raises for teachers.. but wait you are held by the teachers union so that isn't a possibility)
09:30:01 PM Fletcher: We have given 10% raise to teachers, lead nation in health care. reduced the cost and focus on preventive care. While you criticize the employees, they are doing an excellent job. And we have hired the best 61% of which are Democrat - (Good answer way to stick up for your employees)
09:31:00 PM Question: (Ok, we get the stupid question of the night) What experience do you have with the plight of the poor?
09:32:46 PM Fletcher: We were raised in a family with limited means and taught the value of hard work. I worked full time while going to school. I served in the military. We have taken people off the tax roles and helped the mental handicapped.
09:33:38 PM Beshear: I grew up in W Ky. We were poor. We were taught a belief in God and to work hard (he sounds like a Fletcher parrot)
09:34:08 PM His experience puts him in a unique position to help the poor
09:36:02 PM Follow Up: Those experiences were 40-50 years ago. What about the plight now. Fletcher do you know what a gallon of milk costs, gallon of gas, loaf of bread? (Wtf is that question. Nice gotcha question)
09:37:32 PM Fletcher: Answers the questions straight up! Gave the right prices. (Way to stick it back in his face. That was the best answer of the night! He got the George Bush question about not being in touch and he stuck it right back in his face and answered it accurately! Way to go!!!!!!)
09:39:32 PM He has spent a lot of time out and tries to understand them. I have fixed the tax code that Democrats left. Think it is important to realize the plight. I have never taken a lot of money who lost their live savings and walked away with millions. (what a great answer)
09:40:08 PM To Beshear: how much is a dozen eggs?
09:40:40 PM My wife buys them and I don't know... (ooops. way to stay in touch)
09:43:50 PM (This completely back fired on the press guy. He tries to correct governor about price of milk and the governor comes back and tells him he just checked and that is what it cost, he then told him the price of eggs... total victory for Fletcher on this one. He was well prepared for this while Beshear has deer in headlights look)
09:44:23 PM Next Question: What will you do to help with increase in tuition?
09:46:08 PM Fletcher: Increase funding by 20%. Moratorium on tuition increases. If you can work hard and make the grades we will make sure you get an education. Fletcher wants to give education money to adults as well as teen agers.
09:47:09 PM Beshear: 84% increase in tuition. he is going to pay for education as long as they work in kentucky for 4 years after wards.
09:47:35 PM Next Question: Raising sales tax on cigarettes?
09:48:19 PM Beshear: he is against it. He wants to teach wellness instead. (Isn't that what Fletcher has already started doing with the wellness stuff)
09:51:04 PM Fletcher: We are only state to get an A on childhood nutrition. Get healthy Kentucky is trying to help people quit smoking. In NKY, Behsear was for SCHIPS expansion in congress that would raise taxes on cigarettes 1 dollar, and now he is singing a different tune. Wellness tax credits will help us to get there. Financial incentives.
09:53:01 PM Beshear: 81,000 children uncovered. It is unconscionable. Seniors have to decide on spending money on health care or eating (nice demagoguery). No senior should have to make that decision. I am going to spend money to do it
09:54:25 PM Fletcher: We are moving forward on health care. We still have a long way to go. Who solved the Medicaid crisis. (We did) We want to help people get private insurance and not another government expansion like Beshear wants.
09:55:13 PM Beshear closing: This election is about leadership. The core of leadership is values (He is talking in third person again.. how arrogant)
09:56:09 PM Now we get his biography (blah blah blah repeat repeat repeat)
09:58:35 PM (wow, he is lame and an empty suit... now he is talking about putting partisanship aside. Give me a break. The Dems are a hell of a lot more partisan than the Republicans in this state. This is utter bull sh*t) - He is going to surround himself with the best people (as long as they are Democrats) and help Kentucky be a better place.
09:58:48 PM (More Mr Fletcher crap)
10:00:46 PM Fletcher: He has made millions while Kentuckian's lost their life savings. I have made mistakes, but I we have done good things. He has diversified Kentucky's business. Billy Tacket story. We are changing lives and moving Kentucky forward. Are we going to build our future on gambling or on real growth.
10:02:54 PM Fletcher completely outclassed Beshear in this debate. It is ashame that most Kentuckians didn't get to see this debate. Beshear is a tool, while Fletcher is doing real work to help Kentucky. It would be ashame if Kentucky would lose Fletcher as governor.
10:03:11 PM Well, I am done here! Have a great night!